the the there's there's a ver there's a even broader question now.

American allies around the world are watching how he talks about South Korea.

They're watching what he said about Oman.

They're certainly watching the way he's dealing with with Canada.

If you're a NATO ally at this point in a dangerous moment in in Europe in particular, are you are you thinking that there's no way that Donald Trump is going to commit American forces per article 5 NATO treaty um to the common defense?

I think you are hoping that it doesn't come to that.

You have to and you you have to hope that you know Mark Ruta who is you know said these kind of uh you know kind of like suck up kind of messages to Trump that that kind of holds the alliance together but you have to the NATO secretary general.

Yes.

Yeah.

But you have to be you have to be planning for uh for America not to come through.

And even even Carney articulated this at at Davos a few months ago, right?

When he talked about the plight of the middle power having to diversify away from America that you know I think a lot of allies were willing and Trump won when he was also not behaving this aberantly.

Uh they were willing to think that actually America could revert to something like it had before.

The fact that, you know, it's really been the Trump era for a long time that this has happened again means that that they have to think about um alternatives.

The French, I think, are are feeling quite uh you know, vindicated in their skepticism of NATO.

They're they're you know, they withdrew from unified command.

They've always maintained that it's important for France to have its own uh nuclear uh power.

And now they talk about, you know, a European army.

They talk about extending the nuclear umbrella over over Europe when America refuses to do that.

it's affected the world.

Um, and there's no there's no way um I think even that, you know, a future president who who um repudiates all that Trump has done, I don't think that it snaps back at all.

Well, just just to also, you know, speak if you don't care about Canada at all that, you know, that not accusing anyone here at the table, of course, that's fine.

I think one thing an interesting lens to view this in is this deal was a was a referendum of sorts on whether Trump wanted to back off some of his own tariffs at a time when he's facing really bad polling and a potential midterm blow uh as Americans are rightfully concerned with the cost of living.

The deal as that what we're talking about is a deal that would have reduced tariffs on aluminum and steel.

The US gets half of its aluminum from Canada, not half of its imports, half of its total aluminum.

uh steel, huge amount of steel comes from Canada, currently tariffed at 50%.

And autos, which of course use a lot of aluminum and steel.

And so these are pretty core sectors to President Trump's economic agenda.

And he has heaped a lot of tariff costs on them.

By the way, South Korean automakers have an advantage uh with a 15% rate and have to do none of this stuff.

And so in this deal collapsing, put aside the Canada stuff.

It's been an interesting litmus test on how Trump feels about his own tariffs, how Secretary Lutnik feels.

They're not interested in watering them down very much.

Right.

I want to pivot rather wildly to the subject of Dolly Parton, which is as unifying a subject as tariffs and Donald Trump's presidency is a divisive subject.

Um, it's fascinating on so many levels.

I mean, obviously in a in a public policy show like this, in a in a very polarized America, Ashley, people look at a Dolly Parton figure and say, "That's one of the last things we all agreed on."

Um, talk talk for a minute about about this kind of sadness about the loss of a great performer and a great humanitarian, but also this idea that oh, all Americans like her.

Well, what was wild to me was I learned about her death in actually a meeting at the Atlantic, a politics meeting.

Someone sort of looked up from their phone and said, "Oh my gosh, Dolly Pardon died."

And then that night at home, my family was talking at dinner and my 15-year-old said that there was a moment they were changing classes and someone did the same thing, looked at their phone and said, "Oh my god, Dolly Pardon died."

Um, and there was sort of this sense of community and stunned silence, which I was just surprised by that she had so transcended not just what you're talking about politics and partisanship and is sort of universally beloved, but that teenagers today sort of still know her and and know that role.

And I thought that was so telling.

And I would be remiss if I I like her music and there's probably people at this table who know more of her music than I do.

But I have three kids, two young kids, and her imagination library where when you go into the hospital to give birth, you basically sign up and your kid gets a book from Dolly Pardon every single month until they turn five.

I just think it has touched so many parents in terms of literacy and and introducing me to new books, too.

Right.

Adris, I'll give you the final word because you're from Kentucky.

Yeah.

Um which is near Tennessee.

Yeah.

That's that's my that's my theory.

That's my theory of the case.

But uh but talk about talk about her role as this kind of unifying uh figure.

Yeah.

No, I mean I you know I went I went to Dollywood as a as a kid and I also get the Imagination Library books and and that's been very very telling uh and and very very good.

But um yeah, I I wonder we were we were talking who who else could fill this role and it's hard it's hard to imagine.

But I think that you know she gave a lot of money also when there were floods and fires and and just seemed to actually care a lot about ordinary people and never really got too involved in politics.

And I think like that was that was really good.

It is it is fascinating that um you can't really name many many figures like that in American life anymore.

And that's probably not a good thing.

But she's she's popular globally because she represents so much of what the world believes America is and can be.