>> I'm Dr.

Benjamin F. Chavis Jr., and this is "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> We're competing for, you know, hundreds or, you know, thousands of athletes across the country.

We want the athlete who also wants to be successful and excellent in everything.

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we continue to look for ways to empower our customers.

We seek broad impact in our communities, and we're proud of the role we play for our customers and the US economy.

As a company, we are focused on supporting our customers and communities through housing access, small-business growth, financial health, and other community needs.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute -- our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry.

Learn more -- api.org/apienergyexcellence.

The Reynolds American organization -- on a mission to grow a better tomorrow by building a smokeless world.

Reynolds American is investing in innovation, people, and manufacturing to grow tomorrow right here in America.

♪♪ >> We're very honored on this edition of "The Chavis Chronicles" to welcome Vice President of Athletics Kery Davis.

Welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> I am very happy to be here.

I'm proud to talk to someone with your eminence, with your background.

I am proud.

So thank you for having me.

>> Well, man, I'm honored to be in your presence.

Anybody that's won over 30 championships at the collegiate level, you know, you got my honor and respect.

Tell us, Davis -- 'Cause I know you have a -- You first were in the entertainment industry, television.

How did you wind up being an athletic director at the nation's leading HBCU?

>> You know, this was a -- this wasn't a straight-ahead -- this wasn't a straight-line journey for me.

As you noted, I started out as an entertainment lawyer.

And my family was always involved in the entertainment business.

My aunt, Doris Troy wrote a song called "Just One Look" back in the '60s.

>> I remember.

I'm telling how old I am.

I used to dance to that song.

>> [ Chuckling ] Yeah, it was -- It ended up being a pretty big hit, and it got covered many times by, you know, many other artists, including Linda Ronstadt, et cetera.

And she didn't receive any of her royalties for that song, as also having co-wrote it.

>> Man, how does a writer of a song that became a big hit has a challenge to get the royalties?

I mean, she -- That's her creative genius.

>> Yeah, well, what ended up happening was she moved to London.

She signed with the Beatles' label.

So she was one of the first artists on Apple Records.

And while she was in the UK, I guess the publishing company who had the right to administer the song basically stopped sending her checks because she was out of the country and they figured maybe "out of sight, out of mind."

And there was some dispute about -- because her co-writer had passed.

So there was some dispute about whether or not they would have to send her all of the royalties or send her half.

and said, "Listen, this isn't fair."

My other aunt's named Vy Higginsen.

>> Very famous.

>> Yes, yes.

>> Anybody knows anything about entertainment, particularly in Harlem, New York, the name Vy Higginsen resonates.

>> Yes.

Queen of Harlem.

[ Chuckling ] Right?

And so we worked together with my mother in terms of trying to get those royalties back, which we were very successful.

>> Congratulations.

That's good.

>> And then in the process of that, Vy wrote a musical about the story of her older sister's life.

And the musical was called "Mama, I Want to Sing!"

>> Very famous.

>> Yeah.

And so it started in Spanish Harlem back in 1983.

And they did a -- you know, they did a terrific job selling the show to churches, 'cause it was a gospel musical, first of its kind, quite frankly.

And it became a huge hit amongst church groups and also educational resources in New York.

And so they decided to do a three-week road tour in Philadelphia, Washington, and Atlanta.

And my aunt asked me to come on board because I -- you know, I was familiar with the show now.

Come on board as the executive producer/general manager.

And so I did that.

I took a six-week -- >> How old were you then?

'Cause you were a young lawyer.

>> I was probably 25 at the time.

>> That's a lot of responsibility.

>> It was a lot of -- It was more than I thought.

[ Chuckling ] Right?

And especially being responsible for 50 or 60 people in a company on the road, it was a lot.

And, you know, many of the people were older than me, right?

And so, you know, taking a leadership position at that time with people who had far more experience in entertainment was difficult.

But I must tell you, the cast and the crew were really, really supportive.

And a tour that we thought would last three weeks ended up lasting five years.

>> Five years?

>> Five years.

And we went -- We hit every city in the country.

We ended up going to Japan, Europe.

>> So you won championships in the entertainment industry before you started winning championships in the athletic industry?

>> Absolutely.

I think that experience I had with "Mama, I Want to Sing!"

was invaluable.

You know, I remember going over to Japan.

We were doing a show in Europe, and we got a call from someone that said, "Hey, we want to do the show in Tokyo."

And they flew me from Europe to Tokyo.

And they flew me around the world backwards.

So, if the trip would have normally taken 12 hours, it took 18.

Right?

And they wanted to make sure that when I landed, right, they started negotiations right away, off of an 18-hour flight.

>> Interesting.

>> And here I am, you know, this 26-year-old, 27-year-old in the room with, you know, Mitsubishi, who was the sponsor and the promotion company.

And, you know, they had probably 12 people.

And it was just me, right?

And I learned a lot about negotiating during that.

But it was so helpful to me.

I learned things.

I learned how to say what I want.

And the next time that I made a deal like that, I said, "Oh, no, no.

I'll take care of my flight."

Right?

"And we're gonna -- you know, I'll make sure I have the proper rest, and I'll make sure I have the proper preparation."

But it was a -- You know, those were experiences that were invaluable.

>> Invaluable experiences led you to where you are now.

You've been athletic director about 10 years at Howard.

>> 10 years, yeah.

Tell us about what has happened over the last 10 years at Howard.

>> One of the things that -- When I started, you know, Howard didn't have a huge athletic reputation.

I mean, they had a -- >> Academic -- Howard was known for academics.

>> Culture, social, even civil rights.

You know, Howard was leaders in all of those categories.

But, you know, they weren't known for their athletics.

And so once I started looking at the opportunity, I received a call from a friend of mine who was the son of Vernon Jordan.

"Listen, I'm gonna put Vernon on the line," and -- >> Vernon Jordan was on the board of Howard.

>> He was on the board, and he had hired Dr.

Frederick, who was the president.

>> Yes.

Urban League.

Vernon Jordan has his own history as one of our nation's great leaders.

>> Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

And as a matter of fact, my very first job -- I went to Dartmouth undergrad, Dartmouth College.

And my very first internship was working for Vernon at the National Urban League back in the late '70s.

So it's -- We go full circle And I knew he was a proud Howard alum.

I mean, there was nobody prouder of any university than Vernon of Howard.

And he told me something that stuck with me.

He said, "You've been in the entertainment business for a long time."

I had just spent 17 years at HBO as head of sports programming.

And he said to me, "You've had a great opportunities to feed your family, right?

I want you to go to Howard to feed your soul."

>> And that stuck with me.

>> Yes.

>> And so when I spoke to Dr.

Frederick, his first words were, "You know, with our academic prowess, right -- we can use that similar to schools like Duke and Georgetown and Notre Dame as academic schools who excel in athletics.

Why can't we be one of those?"

And I said, "You're absolutely right.

I can sell that.

You know, I could sell that to young people.

I could sell that to coaches.

I could sell that to a staff."

So, that was the plan.

That was the strategy.

So first thing we had to do was make sure we were who we said we were.

We had to make sure we were excelling in academics.

That was first.

So those first two years, I told everyone, "Hey, I'm not worried about wins and losses right now.

I'm worried about getting the best student athletes in here so that we can say with certainty we are an academic department."

And we concentrated on that.

>> So, there wasn't a trade-off?

>> No.

>> Your athletic leaders have also been academic leaders.

In other words, you didn't have to give up studying and practicing in academics to be involved in the athletic program at Howard.

The two came together rather than diverged.

>> Yeah.

As a matter of fact, the academic part was the foundation.

We started there, and that made more young people attracted to us, if you will.

>> Right.

>> Think about it like this.

If, you know, they're -- We're competing for, you know, hundreds or, you know, thousands of athletes across the country.

We want the athlete who also wants to be successful and excellent in everything, not just in basketball or football.

Less than 1% of the people who play professional sports, right, are gonna be college athletes from college athletics, right?

So you have to think about that next 40 to 50 years, right?

So we want those students who think about the next 40 to 50 years, not a 4-year decision.

>> Today, Howard University not only has a great basketball team, football team, but you've expanded the range of Howard athletics.

Give us a cross-section of what the athletic department at Howard University looks like.

>> One of the things we wanted to do as a strategy was to make sure we were represented in sports where, culturally, minorities were underrepresented, sports like swimming and diving.

Howard has the only HBCU swimming and diving program in the country.

Sports like golf, right?

We didn't have a golf team when I started.

I was -- I'm an avid golfer.

Dr.

Frederick, the president at the time and now new interim president -- he was an avid golfer.

So in our very first meeting, "We said we need to start a golf team.

We need to figure out how to do it."

Steph Curry of NBA fame -- >> Pretty good basketball player.

>> Pretty good basketball player, but also a pretty good golfer, right?

He came here to do a -- to premiere a documentary that he had produced.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And while he was on stage, a young man approached him and said, "Steph, would you like to play a round of 18 with me tomorrow?"

And Steph, because he's such an avid golfer, stopped to talk to this young man.

And he said, "Well, I can't.

I have to fly out.

But are you on the golf team?"

And the young man said, "No, we don't have a golf program here at Howard.

I've started a club team."

And they started talking a little bit more.

The next day, I got a call from Steph Curry's manager.

And Steph Curry's manager said, "What would it take to start a golf team at Howard?"

I said, "Okay, let me --" This is -- I hadn't thought about this.

This is a big moment.

I could tell.

And I gave him a big number.

They came back and said, "Okay, let's do it."

And Steph's goal was to make sure -- his mission was to make sure golf was represented in multicultural communities.

And so we've been focused on that.

We've hired, you know, a great golf coach.

We ended up winning the MEAC golf championship in our first year, right?

We've since entered -- gone into a PWI conference, where we've won back-to-back championships in the PWI conference and gone to the NCAA tournament.

So, our golf program is unbelievable.

But we also have tennis.

We also have -- We also have lacrosse.

[ Chuckles ] >> Lacrosse?

>> Lacrosse -- we have the only women's -- we have one of two HBCU women's lacrosse teams.

You know, those are sports we're proud to be represented in.

And we make sure that we give that opportunity to people who look like us.

It's very easy to go into those sports and then just say, "Okay, well, we're just gonna take the best 30 swimmers or the best 30 lacrosse players."

We're intentional about taking the best 30 lacrosse players and fulfill that mission of spreading lacrosse and spreading golf into our community.

>> Has your diversity in the broader athletic world been embraced or challenged?

>> I think it's a little bit of both.

It's been embraced from the standpoint of -- I think we're far more attractive to partners who have a holistic view of the world.

They like the fact that we have a golf team.

They like the fact that we have a swim team.

Those are the sports that are attracting our national brands to partner with us.

When I came to Howard, the athletic department didn't have one national partner, right?

Now we have many between the Jordan brand agreement that we did, which is, you know, unique, the only HBCU that has a Jordan brand agreement.

All of them have come in in part because of the fact we have those other teams, as well.

But there's been some challenges from the standpoint of, there's some resistance to you know, "Let's pay attention on the media front to football and basketball.

That's what counts."

Right?

And we said, "Wait a minute.

We won seven championships last year, right?"

Yeah, we didn't win in football, but that's okay.

We had a spectacular year, right?

But if the media is not covering that, if they're not covering our swimming and golf, right, and track championships, right, then we don't feel that we're getting the type of acclaim that we deserve.

>> Well, why do you think the media is not -- It seems to me, as many championships that you are winning, all the leading sports networks on network television -- they should be covering Howard.

>> They should be, right?

And if the white media is not gonna do it, quite frankly, the Black media needs to do it, right?

And so I've pushed hard in the envelope of the fact -- Just don't look at Black universities as just being about football and basketball.

Success can come on many different platforms.

>> There's a current debate, Brother Davis, about the benefit of diversity or the benefit of inclusion.

With your remarkable success record, it seems to me that broader America benefits for not only permitting, but embracing teams like Howard University and all these various sports arenas, sports areas that historically we have not been present.

In other words, the future of America -- I'd like for you to comment on it -- is gonna be dependent upon these teams being reflective of the population in the nation.

>> I think that's a great point.

One anecdotal point for me is, when I was at HBO, council of Time Warner, the parent company.

>> Time Warner had a diversity council?

>> Yeah, Time Warner had a diversity council.

Well, at the time, Dick Parsons was the CEO.

>> Another great, great guy, Dick Parsons.

>> Yeah.

So -- >> A colleague of Vernon's.

>> A colleague of Vernon's, yep.

And Dick was a very strong supporter of myself.

And so he asked me to serve on that council.

But the great thing about it was they put the top administ-- the top executives at Time Warner on the council.

It showed everyone across the company worldwide, right, that we were serious about this effort of diversity.

So, that was number one, right?

Number two is, we talked about diversity in terms of not just being about skin color, but diversity of thought, diversity of regions, if you will, you know, the -- I think differently, right, than someone from -- you know, from, you know, South Carolina and someone from California.

We all think differently.

Just because our skin color is the same, that doesn't mean we're all the same.

>> The consciousness of somebody that was born in Manhattan, brought up in the Boogie Down Bronx... >> Right, right.

>> ...is a little different from being on the Lowcountry in South Carolina.

>> Exactly, exactly.

>> Not that one consciousness is better than the other.

It's just different.

>> Yeah.

No.

My wife grew up in Mississippi, right?

She challenged me -- She challenges me about that all the time.

>> That's great.

>> You know, she'll say, "You know, I had to do this myself.

You used to calling somebody."

[ Chuckling ] Right?

So, it's -- So, that's -- So, I come at this with that in mind.

And one of the things that we've had to do in terms of what's going on now presently with the administration and this thinking that diversity is a bad thing -- >> Yeah.

>> Right?

That we've had to talk about diversity in different ways.

Let's not talk about diversity in terms of our skin color.

I don't want a quota.

I don't want -- You don't have to give it to us because -- Give it to us because we're excellent.

>> That's right.

>> Give it to us because we're -- Do you think it's harder?

Do you think it's easier or harder to have a Black swim team win a conference championship?

>> You know, the debate is about meritocracy versus mediocracy.

>> Yeah.

>> The history of our people here, in spite of the world's worst slave system, we've always strived for excellence.

We've always strived to get the merit of our work.

And that's why today is sort of a false juxtaposition saying that communities of color, particularly the Black community, doesn't strive for merit.

Our history shows just the opposite.

We've always been meritorious.

>> Yeah.

>> HBCUs have always been meritorious.

>> They've been at the forefront.

interesting, something to look at in the future.

As there's a -- As the present administration puts more and more pressure on institutions of higher learning like Harvards and Columbias and et cetera, it's gonna be interesting to see what that fall-off is and who ends up getting the benefit, right?

So, again, that's one of the reasons why I am championing out in front.

I'm going after the same students that Harvard's going after, right?

And, you know, I'm going after the same students that Yale is going after.

Because at the end of the day, right, that's now become part of the process in terms of how a young person's making their selection.

So I'm gonna be interested to see how the next four or five years comes.

We had a young lady choose us for volleyball who had a full scholarship to Harvard and came to Howard.

Right?

That's where I want -- That's where I want to be.

I want to be in that world.

>> In terms of the future, as you look ahead from your position at Howard as Vice President, what is your prediction about the future of athletics at HBCUs in general?

Do you see -- Is the pendulum moving in the right direction?

Or because of some of the challenges, do you see -- not a pause, but not the acceleration that we really need to have?

>> One of the things -- As you know, one of the huge developments, especially in the major sports, is the name, image, and likeness conversation.

>> Yes.

>> You know, the Power Four schools -- and for the audience's sake, the Power Four schools are the schools that are in the autonomy conferences, the Big Ten, the Big 12, the SEC, and the ACC.

There are about 60 schools comprise those conferences.

They have $20 million to spend on student athletes.

That ends up being a big challenge for HBCUs because oftentimes they're looking at us, looking at schools like us as minor-league systems, feeding ground for them.

"Oh, this young man at South Carolina State's a good running back, right?

He's proven himself, right?

So, instead of taking an 18-year-old and giving that 18-year-old a $500,000, right -- and he's unproven -- I can take that guy from South Carolina State who is proven."

Right?

So, it's providing some economic opportunities for our student athletes, but it's also coloring, blurring the lines, if you will, about what's important.

And I tell our athletes all the time -- We lost an athlete who got over $1 million to play basketball at another -- at a Big East school, right?

And for that athlete, I get it.

That's change-your-life money.

And he was only a freshman.

That's change-your-life money.

But to go someplace else and leave Howard or leave Morehouse or those other institutions like that, right, for an extra $50,000 or $100,000, it goes back to my original thought.

Howard, Hampton, Morehouse, Spelman -- they're 40- and 50-year decisions.

>> Yes.

>> They're not one year of, you know, NIL money, $50,000, right?

That's the short money, if you will.

And we have to continue to educate our athletes to that premise and know that this experience is far more important to them over the course of their life.

>> Vice President Kery Davis of Athletics for Howard University, thank you for joining >> It is an honor to be here, sir.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, visit our website at TheChavisChronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, X, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we continue to look for ways to empower our customers.

We seek broad impact in our communities, and we're proud of the role we play for our customers and the U.S.

economy.

As a company, we are focused on supporting our customers and communities through housing access, small-business growth, financial health, and other community needs.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute -- our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry.

Learn more -- api.org/apienergyexcellence.

The Reynolds American organization -- on a mission to grow a better tomorrow by building a smokeless world.

Reynolds American is investing in innovation, people, and manufacturing to grow tomorrow right here in America.

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